Subject: DD15 and DD16 Turbo compound Preliminary 3D's
From: rotaryeng
Date: 7/22/2012, 2:38 PM
To: AAAA Put this in the To box


 Do  you guys have Detroit Diesel DD15 or Daimler engines in Oz?
  Darren  might adapt the DD15 turbo compound system to  that 600 HP 3
  rotor for  lower fuel burn. If Darren does it I will visit.

  Here is a guy  in Perth that almost did it but the supercharger exploded
  around  1400
  HP before he got it installed. He was going to adapt a CW  R-3350 TC
  blow down turbine.

  Paul Lamar

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XufD9b5MH0
  Paul,
  I am  still looking into the mounting dimensions. My contact has
 left Detroit and has not called back. May be on holidays. Tripped
 over  this video and thought it answers part of the old engine
 question.   How is the RV4 coming along?

  Dale Davies

  Thanks  for that link Dale. I can scale what I need off these screen
  shots. I have  the engine length numbers. What is the typical
  flywheel diameter for truck  engines this size?

  I am working on adapting megasquirt to the  rotary in the RV4.

  Paul Lamar

  Pretty impressive video of  the Detroit, Dale.  I would really like
  to know what oil he used in  it.  I wonder if it was Schaeffer
  Synthetic?  That's what I  use.  It has moly in it as well.  Also,
  like to know what  gasket sealer Detroit uses to build that engine.

  Van

  Those  engines were designed for a B50 life expectancy of 1.2
 million miles.

  http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Exactly-Does-B50-Life-Mean?&id=6973238

  Detroit  uses an anaerobic sealant for many of the sealing requirements.
  These
  include the flywheel housing/timing cover, that oval cover on the
  back of the head and some oil pans. It needs an absence of air to
 harden  thus cast aluminum covers work better than stamped tin. To
 find out the  oil used you would need to contact the fleet owners or
 their maintenance  super. Any of the new higher quality oils should produce
  similar
  results.  Modern oils, filters and metallurgy are far superior to a
 few years  ago. These engines are impressive! One guy I had the
 opportunity to speak  with related that all other things equal; HP,
  load, etc., he got 300Km more  out of a fill than the other fleet
 trucks with Cat or Cummins which go up  to 1000Km's. That is 30%
 farther on the same amount of fuel and these  engines have exhaust
 valves. They are DOHC with 4 valves per  cylinder. They are
 available in Australia.

  Dale Davies

  DD is  not claiming that much :) Only 5%. It is true the rotary can
 do much  better because there are no exhaust valves to waste kinetic
 energy and heat energy.

  Paul Lamar

  Paul --

  I have often mused about running a turbocompound-type arrangement
 on a race  car but, instead of driving the output of the turbine
 into the engine crankshaft, put it into the output end of the
 transmission and send it straight  to the drive wheels. With a
 typical mid-engine car you could mount one each on  each output side
 of the gearbox, and then take the half shafts from there.   The
 engine would be normally-aspirated and thus you could try and make a
  case that it should be allowed the higher displacement limits of being
  unblown.  (Probably a tough case to make.)  With the slick clutch mechanism
  of the DD  system (I looked up on the DD website and that is,
 indeed, a nice job of  engineering, it seems to me) it should be
 only a matter of some development  to get all the gearing and so
 forth sorted out -- recognizing, of course, that  the development
 costs plenty of bucks. I figured it would work best at someplace
  that doesn't have big speed differentials from straights to corners
 --  as on medium to high-speed ovals, for example. Might take some
 more  sorting to make it work on a road course and, also, the extra weight
  might not  help.

  And if you didn't make the thing unhook on decel it could be a real
  adventure on corner entry, especially for hard braking into very
 slow  corners.

  I figure the sanctioning bodies would need about 17 seconds  before
  outlawing it and telling you to get it back on the trailer and the
 hell out of there.  It would end up as a couple of pages in a coffee-
 table  book about interesting but ultimately outlawed race cars,
 right after the  Chaparral and Brabham fan cars but before the "two-
 chassis" Lotus that Chapman  once brought to the Long Beach F1 race.

  But that DD setup looks like a very nice piece of work and the
 people who did it are to be commended.

  On the other hand, what the hell do I know?  I'm just a worn-out  throttle
  jock.

  Best always --

  Fuller

  I spent some time and money in Oxford England at the World Motor
 Sport Symposium trying to convince the F1 team engineers on turbo
 compound. I got some interest but so far no hardware. Those guys
 spend hundreds of millions a year on engine development.

  http://www.rotaryeng.net/Oxford-640-4802.wmv
  Save to your hard disk first. It takes a long time to stream.

  BTW the guy labeled Robin is Phd. Robin Tululia now head of
 Mercedes F1 technical team. He is related to my next door neighbor
 here in Ventura. Small world. Most all of the other chief engineers
 including Ferrari and Renault are Brits. Joe Katz is also a
 professor at a S.D. college.

  Paul Lamar

  Here is an scale overlay of the DD15 and a 3 rotor.
  What is amazing about the turbo 3 rotor is it will easily put out
 the same power. No replacement for RPM and gear box for torque.
 However I don't think it will last as long putting out 500 HP :) 750,
 000 miles at 50 MPH is 15,000 hours :)

  Maybe with ceramic seals.

  The DD15 turbo appears to be about the right size for the 3 rotor.

  -------------------------------------------------------------
  Here are the 3D's.

  Paul Lamar

  That's impressive. BTW did the EPA 07 engine also have TC? it
 looked like it. Graeme Riley

 BTW Dale I still need detail dimensions on the gear box. I was
 guessing here. This would make a good, 700 HP, light weight boat
 engine as is. A bit bulky for an air craft engine but that could be
 redesigned for that specific purpose. The combination shown is
 intended for testing only.

 Paul Lamar

 Still have not gotten a reply. I do not dare let anyone know AC use is
intended! I will try a direct phone call tomorrow and see what I get for a
response.
 I think the EPA 07 engine does as it is of the same design. Available down
under. I do not know how other engine manufacturers can sell engines without
this! If people have had good results from a brand in the past they will
likely stick with it even if another comes out with an improvement.


Dale Davies



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