Subject: Long EZ Fuel System
From: rotaryeng
Date: 10/18/2012, 4:29 AM
To: AAAArotaryeng


 Hi All, It?s been a while since I?ve been on the newsletter between
       work and trying to make progress on the Long EZ.  Anyway, it?s
 time      for the Fuel system and I wanted to get feedback from the
 group on      my design.  I attached a PDF of my concept which
 utilizes 2      different sumps, 1 rear cockpit thigh support/fuel
 sump and a 2nd      sump in the hell Hole.  The reason for the added
 sumps is to try to      recover some of the fuel I will be losing
 due to installing Infinity      retractable gear.   Anyway, my
 assumption was a P-Ported 13B with a      TO4 turbo so the lines
 need to be able to keep that thirsty puppy      humming at WOT.  I
 guess it would make about 350hp at WOT. Anyway,      can you guys
 take a look and shoot holes and make recommendations.       I look
 at the fuel system and Engine installation design as the      most
 critical systems we develop so I want it to be right.

       Thanks

       Mike C.

 I'd put a fuel drain in the lowest part of each sump where lowest is
 when the ship is parked.

 I'd put the pumps in the last sump.

 I don't see provision for fuel return.

 tc

 --
 Thanks TC, cant believe I forgot the return line.  I decided to do
 away with the Hell hole sump, seems like I would be creating a lot
 of work for little gain.  I did add a fitting to the thigh sump so I
 could add an Aux Tank if it was ever needed.  Could just strap it
 into the GIB seat.  Anyway, I have a couple of questions about the
 fuel return.  Will it have enough pressure to overcome the head
 pressure in the sumps from the Strake tanks?  And the thigh sump is
 probably only 2-3 Gallons so should I be worried about hot fuel in
 the sump?  Or should I just return the fuel to the strakes?  If I
 return it to the strakes is there a chance I could empty the sump
 faster than the gravity fill line can return it to the sump?  Thanks
 again for all the help guys.  I attached an updated diagram, throw arrows!

 Mike C.

 Paul
    I'm resending this because I never saw it posted, Might
 have gotten lost in the ether.

 Thanks

 Mike C.



 Now you are talking my language as an instrument tech (industrial).
Why use
cad plated carbon steel fittings. This is designated by the single S prefix. I would use either SS (stainless) there is a a couple of different stainless types available or alloy. Also a couple of options. Use the SS ferrule sets.
With time the cadmium plating seems to let the nut stick to the fitting and it takes some effort to break it loose. SS does not have the same problem. Its problem lies with a lack of tolerance to cross threading. Proper tightening of the fittings is important. Start with the nut just finger tight on the fitting and then tighten 1 1/4 turns. Use a felt pen to mark it to get it right.
 Also, I would use 1/2" return line to make sure there is no restriction there.
 What is the method of connecting to the sumps. You show tube unions
(600-6)
with the tube coming out of the sump. Another fitting available is SS-6-TA-1-?
i Left a question mark for the pipe thread size; 1/4,3/8, or 1/2"NPT. These would be 4, 6, or 8 like AN designations. This would then allow the use of the tube unions directly. A better option is SS-600-1-? tube adapter. If you need a 90* then SS-600-2-?. There is also 45* available. This would eliminate a possible leak source or two. You know every joint will leak eventually.
 Swagelok has available a small catalogue that is about 6" x 3" and about 3/8"
thick that lists a lot of this and explains the codes for it's fittings.
Also
pressure ratings for tubing sizes and materials.

Dale

Hi Dale
  Thanks for the info, I only chose the Steel because they were a lot cheaper, I'll change to SS.  I will also increase the size of the return line to 1/2".  My plan is to use Al tubing which will be floxed into the sumps and Swagelok fittings to connect the lines toe the stub tubes in the sump.  It seemed like a simple solution.  I did look at the Swagelok fittings with NTP -600-2 on one end but thought if I used Al tubing I could bend the tubes in the sump to the location (lowest point for the fuel feed and highest point for the fuel supply and vent) that they needed to be at.  Then flox them in place through the sump walls with a stub tub protruding which will allow me to use a union to attach to the rest of the supply lines and vents.  Now that I think about it I could use a ss-600-2-8 for the return lines and a SS-600-2-12 for the Sump feed and increase the feed line size to 3/4".  Then use the original plan for the fuel pick up lines to the Andair valve.   Keep shooting arrows,  I really want a bullet proof Fuel System.  No fuel = no thrust = BAD DAY!

Thanks

Mike C.

I made all the suggested changes to the fuel system.  Here is the latest design.  Still need to figure out the return...  To the sump or the strakes?  Thanks for the help guys.

Mike C.



<BEZRRG Fuel System.jpg

If you're going to the effort to invent all of this, I'd go the one additional step by simplifying the system by going to a returnless architecture. Use PWM to control pump pressure and eliminate a bunch of plumbing and expense in the valve.


Matt-

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