Subject: Engine mount tango XR
From: rotaryeng
Date: 11/1/2012, 1:54 PM
To: AAAArotaryeng



    Hi Paul, what info do you need, to construct a cad model of a rotary
    engine mount for a tango XR? In broad terms the firewall dimensions
    are 42" wide x 26 3/8" at the widest points, the thrust line is
    approximately 11" below the top of the firewall. More accurate thrust
    line measurement to follow soon but11" is pretty close

    Also I have been chatting to Milo with the RV8 FWF for sale, there's
    obviously a lot of changes to make that fit, what we thought of doing
    was superimposing the rv8 mount over the tango XR mount to get an idea
    of what sticks out the cowling and would have to be moved, would you be
    able to help with this?

    Alex

    The firewall dimensions. You can take a perpendicular picture of the
    firewall looking back at it and then tell me the max width. From that
    I can scale the dimensions that I need.

    Also i need the point on the firewall that represents the thrust line. A
    piece of tape will mark that point. This way I can do a cowl drawing to
    make sure everything fits. If you have a cowl we can use that. I need
 the
    lenght and the size of the spinner. If no cowl I suggest using an 18"
    spinner as the rotary engine is roughly round and that gives more room
 in
    the cowl.

    Paul Lamar

   Hi Paul sorry for the delay I just got back to my project today, a
   perpendicular picture of the firewall as well as cowling photos are
   attached. The accurate dimensions are:

   Firewall:

   The thrustline is 10 7/8" down (from the top centre of the firewall) and
   marked by an X, also marked as the line on the top edge of the tape.

   Maximum firewall width is 42 7/16"
   Maximum firewall height top to bottom along the vertical line is 26 5/16"

   Firewall width running through thrust line marked by X on firewall is 42
   3/8"

   I still need to incorporate a 1.25 degree offset from the X point, (as is
   required by the plans for the lycoming install) or can this be done with
   computer modeling? I would prefer to offset the rear of the engine from
  the
   X mark to achieve the required 1.25 degree offset, because the cowling i
   have already has the offset built into it.

   Cowling:

   Length 36 3/4" (as measured along the top)
   Spinner diameter 14"
   Spinner 1 length 14.5" (same spinner as in the photo)
   (Optional spinner 2) length 19"

   Additional cowl info, lower cowl circular inlet is 2.5" inner diameter,
   both forward air intakes are 2.5" wide and approximately 6.75" long

   I'm planning on using Tracy's 2:85 reduction so thrust line offset would
  be
   to the right as viewed from the cockpit and I was hoping to incorporate
 an
   exhaust augmenter setup to help with cooling,

   I forgot to mention, my pre drilled engine mount holes on the firewall
 are
   both 37 15/16" apart from each other in width, and vertically 19 13/16"
   apart, all measured from centre to centre. These holes are already
   hardpointed to take the mount,


   Alex Molteno


   Good work Alex. I'll see what I can come up with.
   Unless you want to put something under the fuse there will not be enough
   room for a proper  exhaust augmenter. If the cooling diffusers are done
   right there will be no need.

   Paul Lamar

  Hi Paul
  I  hadn't firmed up my ideas entirely regarding the lower cowl setup. I
  thought i might need to hang a spintech muffler underneath the cowl if i
  need to quiet the beast downwhich would negate using an augmenter.

  i also wanted to go with a sub cowl design like Ed Vettermans (or better
  yet the one that was posted a couple of days ago on the newsletter) to
  clean up the cooling drag for any air exiting the bottom cowl. i know
 there
  is a bit of reverse flow going on there because where oil pools up on
  another completed tango next to mine, it doesn't streak and run backward
 in
  flight like usual, so I need to do something there anyway to clean it up.
  The current firewall design makes cowling air turn through an abrupt
  90degree bend on the bottom of the firewall, and after the bend no attempt
  is made at accelerating the cooling air back to free stream flow

  What I liked most about the augmenter idea was that with the pumping gains
  from the exhaust I could ditch the thermostat, cooling air flow through
  heat exchangers would be automatically regulated (more or less) by the
  amount of power I've set. Having such a wide range of hp my aircraft will
  be flying at, also helps keep the inlets from having to be oversize or
  undersize in order to be able to keep within limits.

  Alex

  It is not a good idea (I think) to use any commercail muffler. I am afraid
  you will need to weld something up. There is a possiblty that the guts
 will
  melt and plug the exhaust. Especially if you are using a 13B as opposed to
  an RX8 engine.

  Ejectors have to be rather long to work well.

  Paul Lamar

 Paul, noted on any of the automotive off the shelf mufflers. It seems
 tuning an ejector is a hassle too as a fixed size design only works for one
 speed and air density, and its performance drops off on either side of that
 optimum combination. I've read it can create more drag than it makes thrust
 at higher speeds, if its tuned to provide adequate ground cooling which is
 what i wanted it for.

 I will try and optimize the cooling diffusers as much as possible, and
 might look at shaping the subcowl as an "inverted turbulent flow wing" to
 try and generate more of a low pressure area just aft of the firewall that
 can suck out expended cooling air with some propwash over it,

 Alex

 The trick is to use a long, small diameter coaxial muffler under the fuse
 like Brian
 is building. That minimizes the frontal area increase and the aero drag
 yet providing
 good silencing. The optimum hole sizes are yet to be determined.

 Paul Lamar

I look forward to hearing from Bryan how well it works - Alex

In any event it is visually inspect-able and easily repaired.

Paul Lamar

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