Paul,
Do you have any current information on Mistral's certification
program? The latest date on their website says they expected
certification of the G300 in 2009....
Josh
They appear to be out of biz.
Paul Lamar --
No, they are not out of bizz.
They presented their engines ar Aerofrederichhafen
They have two 300hp engines, in airplane version and in helicopter
version and they have two 200hp engines, airplane and helico
They are on the experimental market. Certified version are on the
back burner for the time. Also frozen is the JETA engines, waiting
for funding.
With the limited funds they have, they struggle to survive and get
additional funding. It is their priority.
This info comes from a reliable source in Switzerland, who is one of
the founders of Mistral. Philippe CHENEVIER
Did you go to Aero this year?
Are they selling parts? Gear boxes? Exhaust parts? Intake manifolds?
Seems that is an excellent way of making money. Also the customers
are willing to test the parts for free.
Do you have an email address for them?
If there is no way to contact them... in effect... they are out of
biz.
Paul Lamar
There is a market in the US for the Mistral gear box constant speed
prop version in particular.
Philippe , do you know if they are still getting subsidies from the
Swiss government? Having received that money are they not allowed to
move the manufacturing out of Switzerland?
It would make economic sense to move the company to the US and the
manufacturing to China like everybody else.
Who is in charge of the company now?
Paul Lamar
Guys,
Chatted with someone at mistral last week.... They told me they
won't sell just the parts.
It appears the want the whole package or nothing.
Not the greatest policy if you ask me. They have developed a great
product and the PSRU is a work of art. But not trying to make some
money with the work they have done makes no sense.
Plan to go to Geneva in June to check out their operation
Will Failing
That is insane! Why pay them $30,000 for a engine that is not as
good as a brand new $8,000 (retail) Mazda RX8 engine.
Let me know when they get a real businessman in charge :)
In the meantime forget Mistral.
Paul Lamar
Actually, if memory serves Mistral's retail pricing was pushing $60k
before they went belly up......okay, maybe belly side ways.....edging
to up.
I have the Mistral intake and super pleased to have licked onto
having proper timing to get it. (Even though the fuel rail design
seems to have been part of the reason for my engine shut down last
month at about 800 feet over the airport)
It seems Mistral has some talented engineers without solid business
sense (or maybe just socialist business sense....perhaps one in the
same). To have a seemingly known market niche in am already limited
market and dismiss such does not seem to be a good business route.
Chris Barber Houston Velocity N17010
The experiment aviation market is very fortunate and lucky to have a
low cost mass produced engine that is more durable than a $30,000
aircraft piston engine. They just don't know it yet.
The biz model that makes sense is buy the low cost engine from Mazda
and buy the parts to turn it into an aircraft engine from some one
else.
Paul Lamar
Mazada is selling new RX8 engines only??? Didn't they stop production
of the RX8 car line ?
George Curtis Jr
They still sell engines and will for the next ten years. I think it
is the law.
Paul Lamar
Does anybody have a rough price for the rx8 engine they could
provide, just tossing up what would be the cheapest way, complete rx8
and modify or build-up from scratch.
Mistral should look at the experimental market, that way they could
start selling with-out the hassles of certification requirements and
have some inservice testing at the same time. Maybe call it the
"Breeze" for experimentals. I agree that their business sense seems
to be lacking. 60k puts them in with the other cert. engine
competition and are skipping the opportunities available in the
experimental market. Perhaps if they knew the numbers on the
newsletter they might have a different perspective, I'm sure that a
lot of builders would opt for it as an easy set-up option ready to
bolt in. Give a few props to choose from and the market would be
there. Smoothness power to weight, am I missing something here,
what's the hold up? Graeme Riley
They will never in a million years get the FAA to certify an EFI
system. Lycoming has been trying for eight or ten years so far. If
Lycoming can't do it Mistral won't be able to do it. They should
stick and aircraft carb on it.
Also their engine is not good as an RX8 p-port. An RX8 p-port has 50
HP more for the same weight and it idles as well as a Mistral or 13B.
A 3 rotor P-port is 375 HP and not only 300 HP. Again the same
weight.
The side exhaust port is 20% more area with better timing.
Mistral is falling behind on rotary technology.
Paul Lamar
Hi!: regarding the very interesting images added to this note, some
things came into my mind:
-Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is a way to reduce NOx emissions, as
any increase in the percent ofexhaust gases entered in the next cycle
reduces flame temperatures, and high flame temperaturesare the cause of
increased NOx production. (Data from Harry Ricardo in aaroncake.net)
-The cartoons don't give a dynamic image of the cycle, so you may have
the not fully right idea thatno EGR exists with peripheral exhaust
ports, when in fact it may be some.
-Wankel RCE efficiency improves with a low pressure exhaust system, and
for this, an enlargedexhaust por area may help, this is a good pro point
in side exhaust porting.
-Peripheral Intake Porting gives the best Mean Effective Pressure, and a
higher MEP is a must for overall power output and fuel economy, but the
situation may change completely with part load or low rpm functioning,
however, aircraft engines do work in an environment totally different
to a car engine, and what is good for an airplane may be not so good for
a car, and viceversa.
-In reciprocating engines, there is some overlap between inatke and
exhaust, as this isnecesary for high rpm scavenging of exhaust gases,
and entry of fuel/air misture in theintake stroke, but Wankel RCEs are
different, I don't know about data regardings this.
-Paul cited somebody having tested a PP Mazda with Reed-Valve controlled
intake, if somebodyknows where to locate data about the results of this
experiment, please let us know, for thoseinterested in improving their
engines for street car use, I continue supporting the idea thata Reed
Valve controlled Peripheral Intake Port, the valve placed as close to
the Trochoid surface as possible, would give improved results in
everyday life use of a car with an engine modified this way (The Swedish
motorcycle maker Husqvarna sold a 2-stroke, single cylinder, air cooled,
500 cc engine for an off-road use, and the intake was controlled by a
Reed-Valve, perhaps it would be possible obtaining some Reed-Valves, the
cage and the Reeds, from an Husqvarna retailer or dealer and test the idea).
Thanks for your kind attention, have a nice weekend, best regards, salut +
José Gros-Aymerich
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