Building Projects

-----Original Message-----
From: paul lamar
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 12:56 AM
To: A10-Me-Earthlink
Subject: Building Projects

The Vision is a plans build plane from the USA state IL
   Pro-Composites Scott VanderVeen is the owner of the company.

   pro-composites.com <http://pro-composites.com <http://pro-composites.com

   Le Roux Breytenbach

   Hi Paul, we have had a couple of Visions built at Serpentine. One
   had a Subaru engine, reg VH WRX, and flew OK, though the airframe
   was a bit heavy. The other is still under construction and has 6
   inches added to the cabin height as the builder is about 6’6” tall.
   Rs, Dave McCandless in Perth

   Dave: You don't have contact with the builders or possible contact
   details of the flyable version of the Vision.?The builders group
   is not a very active and only a small group sharing there
   experience. Will contact you in private for the details. Forgive me
   Paul for reaching out on this group ,as to get hold of our family
   of builders. Much appreciated.

   Le Roux Breytenbach

   The Internet and this newsletter never seizes to amaze me. Le
   Roux and Dave are just across the Indian ocean from each other. And
   I am on the exact opposite side of the globe :-)

   You guys can use the newsletter. I am sure there may be one or two
   more Visions being built on here.

   Paul Lamar

   Hi Paul and Le Roux, Nice Depiction of the Oceans. Give me a day or
   two and maybe I can get some pics. The guy who built the flyer has
   passed away, but the airplane is still around. Rs,

   Dave McCandless in Perth

   I have Vision plans. But I've never had the time to actually build
   it.

   David Mikesell San Jose, California

   Are the wings hot wired foam David?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in 2011 Pierre Swanepoel from S. Afica (I think) was building a 13b
   powered vision. Here are some 3D's and pictures

   Paul Lamar

   Nope, sheet that is cut to shape, then glassed. I did the project
   they sold the VHS tape called the "Totally Useless Box", it is the
   primer to get you used to the techniques in building the Vision.

   David Mikesell

   This is great. This looks like the cheapest way of getting into
   aviation. With or without a pilots license All you need to do is
   solo. While you are building this airplane will locally acquired
   materials. I hope blue Styrofoam is available all over the world.
   Other than the gear box the 13B rotary is near free.

   Paul Lamar

   Yes the Vision Ex what i am building is the only way for me to get
   into owning my own plane at a affordable price.The Vision EX has a
   longer wingspan that is more forgiven in weight if you are building
   on the heavy side of the composite techniques.Paul is right you
   source your building material according to the specs ,locally at a
   composites shop."Pay as you go " at your own time and build in your
   garage at your own pace.In ZA you apply for a builders number at the
   CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) then a "approved person" vissit you
   and sign and stamped your building logs.

Paul i have got hold of   Pierre Swanepoel Vision #338 project and the
fuselage will be
   finished in this year.He is retired now That is how i came to the
   rotary newsletter as the emails that you send and i has found in his
   files between the plans.What a pleasure to build , the plans is
   simple , and no "rocket science" to do basic lay ups and
   vacuum bagging with carbon fiber or glass.

Steve Rahm the designer of
   the Vision was a real plane builder and that reflects in the design
   and plans.Short sweat and simple in your garage with no special
   tools. The main reason why there is not many completed is you must
   sacrifice building hours and "sweat capital".I know there is a
   builders in the newsletter that builds Cozy"s and Tango's and
   Glassair's and i am inspired by you Dave M you will make my day in
   finding a Vision "down under" in Ausieland

Le Roux Breytenbach

I assume blue Styrofoam is available down there SF. Is that correct?

Other core material could be used . End grain balsa wood is an
excellent core material.
For the thicker bulkheads.

Wood door skin Luan plywood could be used for thin wing skins. It is a
very light weight wood that is about 1/8th of an inch thick.

   It is low cost in the US. I noticed a distinct lack of plywood in the
hardware stores when I was in Oz. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong stores.

One might save some money at the expense of a little extra empty weight.

The rotary can make up for that with a lot more power.

Paul Lamar

We use the Gurrit PVC foam cores yellow and green colour in sandwich
construction.
Yellow is 3.7 Lb/ft3 nominal density and Green 5 Lb/ft3
Only 2 thickness sizes the 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch for all the building needs.
Styrofoam is also used on some parts in building.

The glass lay ups to sandwich the core material, is Uni directional or
bi directional glass or carbon fiber or both according to the plans.

Very light and strong.

The Vision has a "wet wing" and the fuel is stored in fuel cells forward
of the spar.Therefore no Styrofoam core material in wings. The wings
have 1/4 inch pvc foam ribs with flanges sandwich between 280 gsm twill
weave glass

Browse this site this is also a very interesting website as a
alternative to kit build planes.

http://krsuper2.com/

Le Roux Breytenbach

http://krsuper2.com/

Cruise Speed ...    140 mph     140 mph
Range ......... .....   600 miles     500 miles
Engine.........     Corvair 2700     VW 2180
Power.......... ''    100 HP .......   70 HP
Fuel Consumption... 5.5 gph     4.5 gph

There is some bull shit going on here.

5.5 GPH is 35 pounds per hour and that is about 75 HP with
a BSFC of .45.

It is not likely to go 140 MPH on 75 HP

In fact it is unlikely to go 140 with 100 HP.

In fact the 140 cubic inch Corvair is unlikely to put anywhere near 100
HP direct drive.

Stock at 4400 RPM was 80 HP.

My guess is it weighs about   200 pounds with out a gear box.

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,258166

The VW specs are even more unlikely.

Paul Lamar

Just seeing the thoughts and stats regarding the Corvair and VW data for the
Vision they are likely.. right on.! At an event this weekend in Oshkosh (my
neighboring town) and also the home of the Sonex... there is one guy running
a Corvair and there are many VW (Revmaster/Aero-Vee) planes in this area.
The numbers as I see them are for the cruising speeds (not HP) which the
Vision compared to the Sonex are a little slower, but..

We certainly don't
give the maximum fuel burn while stating cruise speeds and then apply that
to horsepower. I've enclosed what one of the Sonex guys that fly the Corvair
and VW type engines listed on their aircraft.    Rated HP and cruise fuel
burn look pretty much the same as in this post. The exchange was as follows.

Re: Revmaster R2300 on the Sonex?

What do you think your normal mission profile will be Chris? Do you see
yourself doing a lot of cross countries, or flying around locally?
Using the AeroVee (close to the same engine as the Revmaster) as well as the
information from the Corvair website:

Revmaster: R-2300 VW engine 80hp at 2950 RPM, and 85hp at 3200 RPM.

Low altitude cruise: 130 mph, 4.5 gph = 3.5 hour endurance until empty, 450
mile range
High atltitude cruise: 145 mph, 4.0 gph = 4 hour endurance until empty, 550
mile range

Corvair: 120 HP - 3.0

Low altitude cruise: 150 mph, 6.0 gph = 2.75 hour endurance until empty, 400
mile range High altitude cruise: 170 mph, 5.0 gph = 3.25 hour endurance until empty,
550 mile range

Bear in mind that after around 2 hours I'm more than ready to get out and
stretch. I've done several 2.5ish hour legs in my Waiex (Oshkosh,
Crossville) without issue, but try to keep leg lengths shorter if possible.
Of course, most of my flying is within 50 miles of my home base, so fast
cruise speed isn't that big of a deal to me. Regardless of which engine you
choose, you'll love the airplane!

bruce buksyk

The above numbers were not for the Vision. A larger KR.

The Sonex is a tiny single place airplane with a V tail.

The facts are the BSFC. That is a physical fact of life like the gravity
constant. Unless you know what that is you can not argue the conversions.
I was giving the benefit of the doubt. The engine in my C182 is .52 BSFC.

A direct drive Corvair is at a decided disadvantage when it come to the
prop. My guess running a Corvair at 3100 RPM is a ten to 15% efficiency
disadvantage. That comes right out of the HP numbers. There is no magic
if the stock Corvair makes 80 HP at 4400 RPM It sure and hell not
make 120 HP T

Same goes for an ungeared VW engine only worse as they run them at 3500 RPM.

All this goes back to the Wright brothers with their huge diameter two
geared props. More on this later.

Paul Lamar

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