Building Projects

Hi Paul, we have had a couple of Visions built at Serpentine. One had
a Subaru engine, reg VH WRX, and flew OK, though the airframe was a
bit heavy. The other is still under construction and has 6 inches
added to the cabin height as the builder is about 6’6” tall. Rs, Dave
McCandless in Perth

Dave: You don't have contact with the builders or possible contact
details of the flyable version of the Vision.?The builders group is
not a very active and only a small group sharing there experience.
Will contact you in private for the details. Forgive me Paul for
reaching out on this group ,as to get hold of our family of builders.
Much appreciated.

Le Roux Breytenbach

The Internet and this newsletter never seizes to amaze me. Le Roux
and Dave are just across the Indian ocean from each other. And I am
on the exact opposite side of the globe :-)

You guys can use the newsletter. I am sure there may be one or two
more Visions being built on here.

Paul Lamar

Hi Paul and Le Roux, Nice Depiction of the Oceans. Give me a day or
two and maybe I can get some pics. The guy who built the flyer has
passed away, but the airplane is still around. Rs,

Dave McCandless in Perth

I have Vision plans. But I've never had the time to actually build
it.

David Mikesell San Jose, California

Are the wings hot wired foam David?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Back in 2011 Pierre Swanepoel from S. Afica (I think) was building a 13b
powered vision. Here are some 3D's and pictures

Paul Lamar

Nope, sheet that is cut to shape, then glassed. I did the project
they sold the VHS tape called the "Totally Useless Box", it is the
primer to get you used to the techniques in building the Vision.

David Mikesell

This is great. This looks like the cheapest way of getting into
aviation. With or without a pilots license All you need to do is
solo. While you are building this airplane will locally acquired
materials. I hope blue Styrofoam is available all over the world.
Other than the gear box the 13B rotary is near free.

Paul Lamar

Yes the Vision Ex what i am building is the only way for me to get
into owning my own plane at a affordable price.The Vision EX has a
longer wingspan that is more forgiven in weight if you are building
on the heavy side of the composite techniques.Paul is right you
source your building material according to the specs ,locally at a
composites shop."Pay as you go " at your own time and build in your
garage at your own pace.In ZA you apply for a builders number at the
CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) then a "approved person" vissit you
and sign and stamped your building logs.

Paul i have got hold of   Pierre Swanepoel Vision #338 project and
the fuselage will be finished in this year.He is retired now That is
how i came to the rotary newsletter as the emails that you send and i
has found in his files between the plans.What a pleasure to build ,
the plans is simple , and no "rocket science" to do basic lay ups
and vacuum bagging with carbon fiber or glass.

Steve Rahm the designer of the Vision was a real plane builder and
that reflects in the design and plans.Short sweat and simple in your
garage with no special tools. The main reason why there is not many
completed is you must sacrifice building hours and "sweat capital".I
know there is a builders in the newsletter that builds Cozy"s and
Tango's and Glassair's and i am inspired by you Dave M you will make
my day in finding a Vision "down under" in Ausieland

Le Roux Breytenbach

I assume blue Styrofoam is available down there SF. Is that correct?

Other core material could be used . End grain balsa wood is an
excellent core material. For the thicker bulkheads.

Wood door skin Luan plywood could be used for thin wing skins. It is
a very light weight wood that is about 1/8th of an inch thick.

It is low cost in the US. I noticed a distinct lack of plywood in
the hardware stores when I was in Oz. Perhaps I am looking in the
wrong stores.

One might save some money at the expense of a little extra empty
weight.

The rotary can make up for that with a lot more power.

Paul Lamar

We use the Gurrit PVC foam cores yellow and green colour in sandwich
construction. Yellow is 3.7 Lb/ft3 nominal density and Green 5
Lb/ft3 Only 2 thickness sizes the 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch for all the
building needs. Styrofoam is also used on some parts in building.

The glass lay ups to sandwich the core material, is Uni directional
or bi directional glass or carbon fiber or both according to the
plans.

Very light and strong.

The Vision has a "wet wing" and the fuel is stored in fuel cells
forward of the spar.Therefore no Styrofoam core material in wings.
The wings have 1/4 inch pvc foam ribs with flanges sandwich between
280 gsm twill weave glass

Browse this site this is also a very interesting website as a
alternative to kit build planes.

http://krsuper2.com/

Le Roux Breytenbach

http://krsuper2.com/

Cruise Speed ...    140 mph     140 mph Range ......... ..... 600
miles     500 miles Engine.........     Corvair 2700     VW 2180
Power.......... ''    100 HP .......   70 HP Fuel Consumption... 5.5
gph     4.5 gph

There is some bull shit going on here.

5.5 GPH is 35 pounds per hour and that is about 75 HP with a BSFC
of .45.

It is not likely to go 140 MPH on 75 HP

In fact it is unlikely to go 140 with 100 HP.

In fact the 140 cubic inch Corvair is unlikely to put anywhere near
100 HP direct drive.

Stock at 4400 RPM was 80 HP.

My guess is it weighs about   200 pounds with out a gear box.

http://corvaircenter.com/phorum/read.php?1,258166

The VW specs are even more unlikely.

Paul Lamar

Just seeing the thoughts and stats regarding the Corvair and VW data
for the Vision they are likely.. right on.! At an event this weekend
in Oshkosh (my neighboring town) and also the home of the Sonex...
there is one guy running a Corvair and there are many VW
(Revmaster/Aero-Vee) planes in this area. The numbers as I see them
are for the cruising speeds (not HP) which the Vision compared to the
Sonex are a little slower, but..

We certainly don't give the maximum fuel burn while stating cruise
speeds and then apply that to horsepower. I've enclosed what one of
the Sonex guys that fly the Corvair and VW type engines listed on
their aircraft.    Rated HP and cruise fuel burn look pretty much the
same as in this post. The exchange was as follows.

Re: Revmaster R2300 on the Sonex?

What do you think your normal mission profile will be Chris? Do you
see yourself doing a lot of cross countries, or flying around
locally? Using the AeroVee (close to the same engine as the
Revmaster) as well as the information from the Corvair website:

Revmaster: R-2300 VW engine 80hp at 2950 RPM, and 85hp at 3200
RPM.

Low altitude cruise: 130 mph, 4.5 gph = 3.5 hour endurance until
empty, 450 mile range High atltitude cruise: 145 mph, 4.0 gph = 4
hour endurance until empty, 550 mile range

Corvair: 120 HP - 3.0

Low altitude cruise: 150 mph, 6.0 gph = 2.75 hour endurance until
empty, 400 mile range High altitude cruise: 170 mph, 5.0 gph = 3.25
hour endurance until empty, 550 mile range

Bear in mind that after around 2 hours I'm more than ready to get out
and stretch. I've done several 2.5ish hour legs in my Waiex
(Oshkosh, Crossville) without issue, but try to keep leg lengths
shorter if possible. Of course, most of my flying is within 50 miles
of my home base, so fast cruise speed isn't that big of a deal to me.
Regardless of which engine you choose, you'll love the airplane!

bruce buksyk

The above numbers were not for the Vision. A larger KR.

The Sonex is a tiny single place airplane with a V tail.

The facts are the BSFC. That is a physical fact of life like the
gravity constant. Unless you know what that is you can not argue the
conversions. I was giving the benefit of the doubt. The engine in my
C182 is .52 BSFC.

A direct drive Corvair is at a decided disadvantage when it come to
the prop. My guess running a Corvair at 3100 RPM is a ten to 15%
efficiency disadvantage. That comes right out of the HP numbers.
There is no magic if the stock Corvair makes 80 HP at 4400 RPM It
sure and hell will not make 120 HP at 3100 RPM. It is only 140 cubic inches.

The intake manifold is horrible :-) The other thing about it is the cylinder head temperature at 575 F is a failed exhaust valve waiting to happen.

Same goes for an ungeared VW engine only worse as they run them at
3500 RPM. That is the reason for the tiny prop you see on the Sonex.

All this goes back to the Wright brothers with their huge diameter
two geared props. More on this later.

Paul Lamar

This is the performance figures of Vision #2 build by Sean Ponsonby and flew in 1997 These figures is in his article on the website.
The Vision Ex with longer wingspan can accept the 13B with say 300 ib fwf.Standard iron housings .The cg of the Vision Ex move forward with more or less 3 inch.
This is what is so nice for me about this building with plans, is you build the fuselage and install the engine package.Then you balance the plane on a beam and determine the cg.Then cut in the possision for the spar and install the wing.

   Specifications on Vision #0002

Engine: Lycoming O-320 160HP

Propeller: 2 Bladed Ivo-Magnum ground adjustable 68" diameter Empty Weight 925 lbs Max Gross 1450 lbs Fuel Capacity: 38 US Gallons 100LL (all fuel held in wet wing) Vso 58 IAS mph (stalls gently straight ahead)
Vs1 60 IAS mph
Vy 100 mph 2300 fpm solo @ Sea level
Vx 80 mph
Cruise 181 IAS mph = 209 TAS @ 75% power @ 8000'
Base to final 80 IAS mph
Over the fence 75 IAS mph
Touchdown 55 IAS mph (note that the aircraft is in ground effect)
Flaps: Electrically driven, plain type with 0-30 degrees deflection Cost of Airframe: $7,300 Cost of Engine: $11,000 (firewall forward) Cost of Instruments: $11,000

Le Roux Breytenbach

That $ is high for an engine. In the states you can get a running 13B for as little as $300 US.
Not including gear box of course. Did you get a gear box when you bought the airplane from Pierre Swanepoel?

Paul Lamar

No gearbox but following the newsletter with interest. All the info and R&D on a simple gearbox is for free in the newsletter and website.
Thanks for all the people sharing there "intellectual capital" and for you Paul as "pilot in command"
No reason to re-invent the wheel, I will follow in the footsteps of other with the gearbox, and will build it locally in ZA.

At this stage there is another 2 builders busy with Vision profects locally.
Vision Ex #338 will probably be the first flying with a 13B in ZA and perhaps the world.
Pieter Botha of ZA has build a Vision SP #342 but it is still grounded due to some "politics with the CAA".Engine O-360

Le Roux Breytenbach

Gear box's are not that hard to build if you can get six inch alloy tube with a one inch wall
and a good size lathe.

Just copy the Ross. Old Lou Ross (deceased) was a brilliant engineer.

Paul Lamar

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