This site  describes F1 direct injection scheme; looks like
stratified    charge with a pre ignition chamber. An injector in both
chambers.

<http://www.enginelabs.com/news/f1-tech-what-is-turbulent-jet-ignition/

 I neglected to report they claim  BSFC is 200g/KW/Hr with an F1 V6.

I translated that to be .33

Robert LeClercq

The  strange thing is that the rules only allow one injector per
cylinder .  I wonder how they get around  that.

Barry Bordes


Paul and Robert,

The Rotary Community has people working on TJI... just saying. See
attached,

Barry Bordes

What are we looking at here Barry?

The wankel is trying to set a fire in a wind storm. They don't call
it a rotating combustion chamber for nothing :-)

IMHO the problem won't be solved until that is changed. They should
blow some air in the reverse direction.

One way to do that is have a double layer combustion chamber and use
the air flowing in the basement up, around and back to slow the air
flowing in the living room where the fire is :-)

If the ceiling is low enough in the basement the air  won't catch
fire in the basement due to flame quenching and the lack of fuel in
the basement air assuming direct injection in the living room.

The slot that allows the compressed air to enter the basement will
reduce the pressure that causes the squish flow in the living room in
the first place :-)

Pardon the analogy with a house on fire :-)

------------------------------------------------------- To clarify
this analogy just a bit.

In a strong wind nothing will burn up wind.

That is the fundamental problem with the wankel. It does not burn
when it will do the most good. It is best shown in fig-32.jpg.

However, it is NOT an instrumental problem. It can be fixed.

We just need to do a bit of experimenting with the combustion
chamber.

Paul Lamar


Hey Paul,
Here is the info on the BSFC. It pertains more to the Mahle precup system than the meerkiddies F1 motor.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2016/07/20160711-mahle.html

Could surely be used in a wanker as well with your basement blow by system could really do something in the way of efficiency.

Cheers,

Kurt Emerson


To convert 200g/kWh to BSFC is pounds per BHP multiply by .001643

That comes out to diesel fuel consumption. The diesel does it with a 20
to one compression ratio at super lean conditions. Maybe they got the
engine to run at a super lean conditions at low RPM since the spark plug
is right next to the fuel injector. That does not mean the engine is
generating any power to speak of. Yes you can get the engine to
idle at .33 BSFC. The Wankel would do the same thing.

I'll reserve judgment until I see an economy car getting
     sub-200 g/kWh BSFC or .33 BSFC  or 60 or 70 MPG
at some sort of reasonably highway speed.  :-) That is the bottom line.

The Le Man's  4 rotor rotary was generating 350 HP when it was making
.47 BSFC.

You have to also consider the source here. "Green Car Congress" ROFL
This is a very dishonest presentation. They are trying to fool somebody.
They are not telling the whole truth.  FAKE NEWS!!!!!

Paul Lamar


SAE is the Society of Automotive Engineers, Paul.

Does anyone here have access to the paper referenced in the article?  The DOI is 10.4271/2016-01-0709.  I tried to find it, but it�s stuck behind the SAE paywall for $27.  Any SAE members here?  I have a friend who is probably a member.  I used to change his diapers, so he owes me.

In the abstract, it says "In the present study, the engine performance improvement pathways of the system are explored through an examination of experimental results from single-cylinder and multi-cylinder engines incorporating the jet igniter. System operation is presented in detail.�  Sounds worth reading.

Dave Klingler

The SAE will publish anything. There is no board of experts examining submitted papers and
approving or not approving a submitted paper for SAE publication.

This device does not need an engine to work. If there is a small amount of gasoline  sprayed
and the air fuel ratio happens to be in the range of ten to twenty to one it will burn rapidly. So what?

Congratulations they developed a device that might ignite a 21 to 1 mixture ratio.
You might get your diesel engine to idle with less fuel :-)

BSFC is only relevant if there is a considerably  amount of power being generated.

There is nothing about this device that would suggest an improvement in the BSFC
as long as the lean mixture in an engine is already being ignited.

Without the actual paper little can be determined. It is irresponsible to quote a
BSFC number with little or no power being generated.

Good idea! Put the spark plug right next to the fuel injector :-)

Paul Lamar


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