Paul: Who wrote this? There was no name below it.

          "A gyro, in a zero speed landing, lacks adequate rudder authority
          because the prop is idling and there is no forward speed to produce
          airflow over the rudder. It's is one of the great vulnerabilities of
          gyros and the reason for a lot of rotor strikes due to a lack of yaw
          control in the last moments of a zero speed landing. The vectored
          thrust from a ducted fan might fill that control gap."

          I doubt whomever wrote it is a gyrocopter (or the FAA term:
          gyroplane) pilot.

          A lot of rotor strikes and lack of yaw control are not issues in
          pusher gyrocopters.  Zero speed landings are possible with some
          headwind. Very low speed touchdowns are common, with 10-20 feet
          rollouts.

          Any rotor strikes of gyros one sees on youtube videos are almost
          exclusively a takeoff situation, and a result of a pilot not
          following their instructor's training to make sure the rotor blades
          are up to flight speed before lifting off the ground.

          There is no need to develop some sort of ducted fan for pusher
          gyros.

          Kevin Richey Portland, Oregon


          Boyd Thompson wrote that.

          Suppose you are landing in a cross wind. Is that possible?

          Paul Lamar

          Hi Paul, Perhaps this is what the experienced pilot who crashed my
          project 18a was talking about?:
          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5zWLTQXcUI Thanks. Boyd Thompson

          Looks like you are right. I suggest a bigger rudder with a 45 degree
          pivot to take advantage of the rotor down wash.

          Paul Lamar



        Urkh, he made a mess of that!
        Must have been very poorly trained. He tried to land like a fixed wing!
        Bad mistake.
        What downwash are you talking about Paul?
        In autorotation - whether it be Gyro or helicopter there is no
   downwash,
        air actually goes up through the rotor disc.

        May I suggest everyone studies autorotation before further comment.

        John Evans


        Your right about the gyro  John.

        My mistake on the gyro. I was thinking like a helicopter under
   power :-)
        The 45 degree rudder  thing won't work on a gyro.

        Back to the bi directional starter motor electric blaster.

        Paul Lamar


   I have been watching his conversation with amusement.

     First of all I have about 2300 hours in Gyros. While I've never flown
   a factory job like an 18a, I have built and flown several KB2's,
   gyrobees, 3DRV, and of course my own design ( which is really kind of a
   combination of the stuff from Ken Brock's gyro and the 3D RV by Monte
   Hoskins).

   Now the video refers to is just either someone screwing around during
   Landing, or really bad landing techniques. A low time pilot not really
   knowing what he's doing or a fixed-wing pilot trying to teach himself to
   fly gyro.

   I have done plenty of zero Landing rolls and I can tell you right now
   the Rudders work fine just like they're supposed to. To make a ducted
   fan tail is just trying to be different, there's no need for it.

   Igor Benson pretty much laid down the framework for the modern-day
   Gyros. Slight design changes for thrust line through the CoG and
   lowering the center-of-gravity to prevent POP  (powered push over),
   better blades and the offset gimbal rotor head have been the only real
   advances. That's because they fly fine, no need to reinvent the wheel.

   David Mikesell
   San Jose, CA


Thanks, David. I appreciate your time and the time of all those who have responded on this. I know this must seem like someone wanting to put training wheels on a motorcycle. I rode a couple of times with Bill Parsons, then he was gone a short time later. Good guy.

What do you make of the South African data, with the after landing accidents being the second largest category, and the apparently high fatality rate relative to General Aviation? Too small a data set? Post landing issues similar to fixed wing? Do you know of a similar NTSB study? Thanks for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Boyd Thompson



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