Paul: Who wrote this? There was no name below it.
"A gyro, in a zero speed landing, lacks adequate rudder
authority
because the prop is idling and there is no forward speed to
produce
airflow over the rudder. It's is one of the great
vulnerabilities of
gyros and the reason for a lot of rotor strikes due to a
lack of yaw
control in the last moments of a zero speed landing. The
vectored
thrust from a ducted fan might fill that control gap."
I doubt whomever wrote it is a gyrocopter (or the FAA term:
gyroplane) pilot.
A lot of rotor strikes and lack of yaw control are not issues in
pusher gyrocopters. Zero speed landings are possible with some
headwind. Very low speed touchdowns are common, with 10-20 feet
rollouts.
Any rotor strikes of gyros one sees on youtube videos are almost
exclusively a takeoff situation, and a result of a pilot not
following their instructor's training to make sure the rotor
blades
are up to flight speed before lifting off the ground.
There is no need to develop some sort of ducted fan for pusher
gyros.
Kevin Richey Portland, Oregon
Boyd Thompson wrote that.
Suppose you are landing in a cross wind. Is that possible?
Paul Lamar
Hi Paul, Perhaps this is what the experienced pilot who
crashed my
project 18a was talking about?:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y5zWLTQXcUI Thanks. Boyd Thompson
Looks like you are right. I suggest a bigger rudder with a
45 degree
pivot to take advantage of the rotor down wash.
Paul Lamar
Urkh, he made a mess of that!
Must have been very poorly trained. He tried to land like a
fixed wing!
Bad mistake.
What downwash are you talking about Paul?
In autorotation - whether it be Gyro or helicopter there is no
downwash,
air actually goes up through the rotor disc.
May I suggest everyone studies autorotation before further
comment.
John Evans
Your right about the gyro John.
My mistake on the gyro. I was thinking like a helicopter under
power :-)
The 45 degree rudder thing won't work on a gyro.
Back to the bi directional starter motor electric blaster.
Paul Lamar
I have been watching his conversation with amusement.
First of all I have about 2300 hours in Gyros. While I've never flown
a factory job like an 18a, I have built and flown several KB2's,
gyrobees, 3DRV, and of course my own design ( which is really kind of a
combination of the stuff from Ken Brock's gyro and the 3D RV by Monte
Hoskins).
Now the video refers to is just either someone screwing around during
Landing, or really bad landing techniques. A low time pilot not really
knowing what he's doing or a fixed-wing pilot trying to teach
himself to
fly gyro.
I have done plenty of zero Landing rolls and I can tell you right now
the Rudders work fine just like they're supposed to. To make a ducted
fan tail is just trying to be different, there's no need for it.
Igor Benson pretty much laid down the framework for the modern-day
Gyros. Slight design changes for thrust line through the CoG and
lowering the center-of-gravity to prevent POP (powered push over),
better blades and the offset gimbal rotor head have been the only real
advances. That's because they fly fine, no need to reinvent the wheel.
David Mikesell
San Jose, CA
Thanks, David. I appreciate your time and the time of all those who have
responded on this. I know this must seem like someone wanting to put
training wheels on a motorcycle. I rode a couple of times with Bill
Parsons, then he was gone a short time later. Good guy.
What do you make of the South African data, with the after landing
accidents being the second largest category, and the apparently high
fatality rate relative to General Aviation? Too small a data set? Post
landing issues similar to fixed wing? Do you know of a similar NTSB
study? Thanks for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Boyd Thompson
As I previously commented the most dangerous people in gyros are experienced fixed wing pilots - the more hours the more dangerous!
After putting up quite a few hours in my Mooney the local boys taught me Gyro basics, believe me it's a different game.
It's all about ROTOR CONTROL. When the rotor is up to speed you have a tiger by the tail! Remember the flight isn't over until the rotor is secured, if you haven't got it tied up it will bite you. There is a lot of energy there.
Everyone wants a spiffy cabin to protect them from the wind and weather, they feel protected inside it. In a crosswind situation it is a major contributor to loss of directional control due to its side surface area. In many ways the old naked Bensens were safer, even without a proper HS.
It is essential that there is no direct link between the rudder pedals and the nose wheel, castering seems to work OK, or a spring connection.
When instructing experienced fixed wing pilots it took a lot of training for me to overcome their tendency to revert to fixed wing habits. They are confused by the apparently conventional control responses and forget the different bits. Apparently there was even a Gyro fatality many years ago in Antarctica, Ken Brock had been involved in some filming, he left a Gyro behind to come home later. A very experienced DC4 pilot ( he could fly anything ) took it up with the inevitable result.
Properly handled there is nothing safer, or more fun than a Gyro. If you are tempted to try one get thorough training and learn how it flies. Remember gyros don't kill people, people kill gyros!
John Evans
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