Hi!: nice discussion.

I'd add that VE of RCE is better than in reciprocating engines above a
certain rpm, but below 2000-1000 rpm, the situation is bad, and at part
load, even worse, but this is an Experimental Aviation site, not an
street car forum, and aircraft engines range of power use may be between
40 and 99% of nominal top power, in road vehicles, this may be less than
20%, 10% most of time.


Thanks, regards, + Salut

Jose Gros-Aymerich

  Madrid, Spain

What ever gave you that idea. The low speed torque on my RX8 engine is
exceptional.

It will pull away at idle with 4 people in the car and my foot off the
gas pedal. Just let the
clutch out slowly.

Paul Lamar

Hi!: thanks, I was offered by a local Mazda dealer driving an RX-8, and
yes, it pulled a lot from very low, but for an engine close to 3 liters
in a light car, it's not too difficult.

RX-8 was the ultimate development, my comment was a bit old-fashioned,
as it came from the 1981 K Yamamoto book, attached is a 'patchwork' of
images from it.

Thanks, regards, + Salut

  Jose Gros-Aymerich

Madrid, Spain

It is not 3 liters it is 2.6 liters and the car is not light. It is
built to American crash
standards with an empty it weighs close to 3000 pounds.

A Renault Clio is 2000 pounds.

Paul Lamar

My 1973 RX3 would pull away at idle just with judicious clutch
engagement. That was the 2.3L with side intake and p-port exhaust. A VW
beetle would out accelerate it at first but once 3000 RPM was obtained
the story changed quickly. That car was 2000 pounds. I do not think
there was a lot of power difference between the late 12A engines and
early 13B engines. Power per liter x .3 for the displacement increase.

Dale Davies

Hi!:  forgot that when talking to engineering and mechanics experts you've got to be 'accurate', at least, as a table of logarithms.

My 1976 AMC Pacer base, I'm trying to have installed there a 1987 13 B NA with the 4 + rev auto trans from an RX-7, weights 3131 lbs, 1420 kg, with 95 HP, it's not a 'Sports car', with the good for its time CD of 0.4, but an huge frontal area, wind drag wasn't very good, but just good.

At speeds below highway limit, much more at ordinary road speeds, it can be even economical.

The US RX-8 Touring automatic transmission, of 2008 had 3053 lb, 1385 kg, 212 HP, with a CD of .31, this is another planet.  (data in automobile-catalog.com)

With the difference in engine weight, the final weight result of 13B motorized Pacer will be very close to an RX-8, just handling and drag from body, also suspensions, may differ noticeably.

I guess that if you engage the clutch gently enough, any car of motorcycle will start moving at idle, what happens next when you press the pedal, and how long does it take for having a full response from engine may be what matters .

When I was offered driving the RX-8, the mechanic who did that warned me that tires had wear, so I decided not going to open road and highway in the nearby, but a round turn around the block.

The car was lovely, great, and even as you put it on like shoe, you don't enter inside, no feeling of lack of room came.

Regards, + Salut

  Jose Gros-Aymerich

   E-28033 Madrid, Spain

I am surprised the Pacer is that light. It is a big fat old American car that was made by cutting
a longer American car in half :-) Economy cars were selling better at the time and AMC could
not afford to design a real economy car so they cut one of the regular  products in half :-)

That was before the stupid liberals got Draconian on American car's crashing ability in the US.

"We love you and we are not going to let you hurt yourself by driving a "dangerous" light weight car."

A typical car sold in the US is now 1000 pounds heavier than the same size car sold only
in Europe. A 62 MPG Renault Cleo is a good example. Despite no speed limits on parts of the autobahn
the accident death rate is about the same as in the US. This has resulted in a huge increase in fuel burn in the US
cars and in the world over all because there are one or two cars per person in the US.

Some Chrysler/Fiat products now sold in the US have a computer that
displays instant MPG readings. My Ducata AKA RAM truck is one of them.
The crash rules to not apply to  trucks I suspect but I am not sure.


Therefor the MPG reading can detect the  slightest incline in the road by showing the MPG
reading dropping 10% to 50%. This is the rolling resistance and it has nothing to do with
aerodynamic drag. Rolling resistant is the majority of the drag up to about 60 MPH where
aerodynamic drag starts getting very significant. Rolling resistance is directly proportional to weight.

So the stupid moron liberals just shot themselves in their feet by getting draconian
about crashing cars into concrete walls. A small percentage of all crashes.
Most crashes are car to other car or cars to trees and ditches.

Paul Lamar

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