Subject: Muffler question
From: paul lamar
Date: 8/8/2017, 3:11 PM
To: A10-Me-Earthlink



         Hi Paul,

         I hope the  Oshkosh experience was very good.  The TTC project is
         very impressive.

         I’m gradually working through my radiator and oil cooler issues, and
         also building an exhaust header / tangential muffler.  I have a
         couple of questions on the latter.

         Please see the attached, although very crude, drawing.

         I am using the Racing Beat SS header, with short 2.5”x 1.75” OD .065
         304 SS tubes welded in place.  These will slip into 0.65” 1.88” tubes
         that will in turn be welded into a 6” 304 SS .065 cylinder/muffler.
         On the front, a 90 degree 1.88” tube is used to reduce the length of
         the 6” tube and significant weight.

         Due to space and other constraints, I need to bring the 3” tailpipe
         (also .065” 304 SS) out of the *rear* of the muffler and up.  This
         gives me at least 3 options: 1. A straight 3” pipe welded to the rear
         of the muffler. 2. Squeeze the 3” tailpipe into a fish mouth (your
         previous drawings showed an area about 1/2 of that of the tailpipe).
         Or weld up a larger fish mouth. 3. Or, allow a short section of the
         3” tailpipe to remain inside of the muffler, which could be closed
         off and drilled with (e.g. 0.5”) holes to arrive at the same exit
         area as the fish mouth design.  I am wondering if this might be a
         more conventional muffler design and possibly allow better sound
         reduction?

         The prior concerns regarding the longevity of any metal living
         “inside” the muffler have been noted. However, with a Renesis engine
         having exhaust ports coming through the iron housings, as well as a
         cooling tube, both giving lower exhaust temps, do you think this is a
         concern for .065" 304?

         Thanks for your input,

         Scott Gettings

         You are on the leading edge Scott. Nothing like this has been built
         yet. The RX8 side port exhaust is  a little cooler so it should work
         all right. If it burns through opposite the exhaust ports you can
         weld on doubler patches.


         Paul Lamar


       Scott,  Suggest that you investigate 321 S/s as 304 is a very low grade Stainless.  Remember the exhaust temp will get up to 1800 degrees which is rather warm.  Your design is similar to what I made and is still alive, but I have not the cooling tube.  Neil Unger

       Nice work Neil.

       Paul Lamar


       Typically 309 & 310 are used for high heat applications, 309 is good for 2000F and 310 2100F.
       Be sure to use the correct filler rod the material you are working with or you will be wasting your time using these more expensive grades.
       I would not call 304 a low grade steel, they all have their place in the appropriate application.
       Andrew Campbell.


   Paul, do you recommend having slip joints on the pipes just after the SS flange like Scott has, or is it ok to put these further downstream. Reason is ask is that I wanted to duct some cooling air around that area in flight and my concern is when going from high power straight  to a power off, high rate of descent leading to possible uneven temps around the exhaust due to cooling air distribution.

   I want to try and minimize the risk of possible cracking. With the space I have to duct cooling air I have to duct it from front to rear so the front (if sitting in the cockpit) exhaust header pipe gets the coolest shot and the rear header pipe gets the air warmed by the other 2 further in front.

   Any issues you can see using thick wall stainless tubing bends

   Alex Molteno

   The thicker the wall the better. There is a weight draw back of course,
   .109 wall 304 and it hardly shows any problems at all. One can buy 304 SS hand rails
   from http://www.wagnercompanies.com/products-services/railing-systems-and-components/railing-components/elbows-and-wall-returns/ <http://www.wagnercompanies.com/products-services/railing-systems-and-components/railing-components/elbows-and-wall-returns/>


   rfq@mailwagner.com <mailto:rfq@mailwagner.com>

   You can then use the exhaust plumbing for motor mounts :-) Joking of course.
   It is only the first 18 inches of a p-port or so and by that time it has cooled. The slip joint
   can go there. Scott has a problem in that it is a pusher so he has way less
   room in the cowl to work with. If you can avoid it keep the muffler out of the cowl
   and use a coax muffler.

   Do you have an RX8 engine? Things are a lot easier and quieter as the exhaust is a couple
   hundred degrees F cooler with the side exhaust.

   Paul Lamar


OK thanks Paul, good to know for the parts source to use tubing handrail. I've added a bit of extra weight already during the build so a few extra lbs of exhaust weight will be OK for extra insurance against cracking

Alex Molteno


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